No more mild steel targets to shoot at, it completely deformed I'll stay with my 45. The righteous banded together to defeat evil as this was surely the will of God himself. When I went to the former, I added up all the ammo the conducted ballistic gel tests for and averaged them out. The more we all know, the better organized and stronger the shooting and hunting community will be. of energy. Personalize your experience. NYPD study had their officers at 18% accuracy in gunfights. When I asked them why .they said it was because they didn't make a 46. I agree Patrick. If you load your own and clock your loads, this is not news. Imagine a world where those guys held the power to wipe out the north American continent. Also the title of the article seems to contradict his conclusion that the extremes are seperated by a mere 10%. Best thing to do before buying, in my opinion, Damn good question and I have wondered this myself. Their is also a cost difference thou if you look around you can get ammo cheaper. Well, when it comes to home defense, the .45 ACP does holdone distinct advantage over the 9mmshallower penetration. Both (roughly!) It's all about the ammo. I agree with what the majority of old veterans say. If I did, I would either aviod the area or take a rifle. And full metal jacket 5.56 bullets are not more effective than 7.62 x 51 using full metal jacket from what I have read. * more rounds (20-30% accuracy by FBI measures) I bet if a poll was done on best semi auto handguns glock would win by a landslide, H&K by far . Or is it just a complex but unimportant piece of data, meant for people who are seriously interested in (and can mentally tolerate) the complex physics of shooting? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". There are videos and statistics comparing 357 and 45 acp. Another important aspect of muzzle velocity is the difference between the speed at the muzzle and the speed at the target. Adam and Eve passed on the nature of sin (spiritual death) to the whole human race (see Romans 5:12-21), which is why we MUST be "born again of the spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God" (see John 3:3). No way in hell can the 9mm possibly ever match the .45, or even the .40 S&W, at stopping people. All this being said, get good with whatever you get, then, just go with. I have both, I have practiced more with the 45 ACP. Watch some videos on 9mm vs 45ACP in ballistic gel. Accuracy is affected by the stress of being shot at, the need to establish effective cover, high respiratory rate from the exertion required to get to that cover, moving (and sometimes multiple) targets and other factors. Hum. Especially without comparing the loads terminal performance at different ranges (especially in the case of the 70grain hollow body Lehigh). Great weapon! Whatever floats your boat. Velocity. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. As one coroner I heard from said, he's never seen a .357 Magnum leave a body and he's never seen a .44 Magnum stay in one. Instagram I train lots of noobs on my firearms who want to buy for self defense. Im not aware of any Humans that can dodge a round in under 1/2 second. Muzzle Energy: 369 lb/ft (230gr at 850FPS) 304 lb/ft (124gr at 1050FPS) . There has to be an overall advantage in close to medium range combat. What seemed like moments after making my calls to get .45, I was again on the line with several of the same fine companies to acquire some 9mm. There is no perfect handgun, life always has compromises. It is a problem at every agency. This means you have less of a chance of hitting an innocent bystander through a wall in a self-defense scenario. Till yesterday I carried .22LR. "My husband doesn't like the sound of loud guns"..For Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. My preference is to pull up the energy graph for nice visual reference. My 9mm is def better carrying size, 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby. He didn't make it and when they found the round it was in his neck. Let me start out by saying that the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance on the .45 ACP and 9mm. No matter how much you love than one 9mm you saved up for. ERIC! Only your focused aiming and bullets. However, I am getting an M&P9 2.0 for my daily carry. Thus, you have a yearly day qual and a yearly night/low light qual and thats it. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Even the training provided is usually lacking. The consistent data is wonderful, but it made for a rather boring graph when it was all said and done. Hard recoil can also impact follow-up shots in self-defense situations, so some recommend slower cartridges as opposed to hotter rounds, especially for smaller or weaker gun owners. Doesnt get any simpler than that. This length ratio maximizes the projectile velocity. Essentially, the 9mm will recoil on average 50% less making it easier for shooters to get their sights back on target for follow-up shots. They want a 210 or better the 1st time through and then you get back to work. If you are going to use 5.56 x 45 make sure you get ammo that uses 69 to 77 grain soft or hollow points as they are far more effective than 62 or 55 grain full metal jacket. You'll now receive newsletters of our best articles on techniques, The 9x19mm allows you to make more holes, from a standard pistol, than a .45 caliber pistol [albeit only 2-4 more rounds in the 9mm]. No matter what caliber you pick, we got you covered in our Best 9mm Ammo and Best .45 ACP Ammo reviews. 4. Josh thank you for this. In conclusion: These people that sit at the alter of the FBI make me laugh. some info is well hidden for obvious reasons. The 45: Has more JHP expansion, More knock down power(even with a FMJ). You WILL freeze and lose hearing and fine motor control. Your 45 and your 9mm will both go clear through the walls in your house. 333 ft/lbs. Well use another sports analogy to make this point: think of a linebacker traveling at 6 mph, which is a typical jogging speed. 5.7mm FN 30 Grain SS195LF Jacketed Hollow Point Average muzzle velocity: 2162 fps Average muzzle energy: 311 ft/lbs. As mentioned in the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a problem with the .45 ACP because of its slower, bulky bullets. But the greater concern is, that Judges in my country do not like defensive shooting. like when they took away the man stopping .308 caliber M-14 and gave them a stinking .223 varmint round to fight a war with in Vietnam." Very accurate pistol setup. I shoot the 1911 platform better than any semi auto or revolver Ive ever shot. I compete with them all. Easier to conceal and handle. Old, Fat and Slow will do the job on the other hand depending on clothing choices I've been know to carry a 9mm or a 380 and I'm comfortable with having the choice, 10mm There is absolutely nothing more effective. Wouldn't that make the.45 leap farther ahead again, in terms of "better"? Its simple physics whats going to cause more damagea Federal HST 147gr 9mm going 1000 fps or a Federal HST 180gr 40 going 1010 fps? Im in the middle of chosing a duty weapon, and settled on the PPQ. Tracy. Ultimately, both calibers are great to have. No, youre not . God bless. When I'm in the woods I use .45 cast. A 9mm is generally cheaper, has less recoil and higher velocity than a .45 ACP. If you notice, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have the same average energy, but as I showed earlier, .45 ACP penetrates more on gel tests. In church it's a full size 45 at home full size 45 SHTF one for travel one for house to house. It's simple and I know the answer, velocity and follow up shots. The 9mm Luger has a muzzle velocity of 1,120 feet-per-second (fps), while the .357 Magnum touts a muzzle velocity of 1,240 fps, despite the fact that its bullet is 34 grains heavier. Abstract It also has a wide selection of ammunition types. My father is a Doctor and interning in the E.R. However, how about the hollow point bullets that's suppose to stop and explode once they enter the body.Is that a myth or not? Most of the 9mm-luger cartridges they tested are still accelerating out to 16, but most of the gains occur by about 10. It appears that overall, the optimal barrel length for 9mm (for something like an AR-15 pistol build, SBR, or similar setup), is about 7 to 8 inches for maximum efficiency and handling, though going longer can still have benefits. We already have an account registered for email address My favorite round is a sig 200 g. I tested this as a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets. They struggled with .357 and .45. With a wider selection of officers being able to shoot handguns chambered in 919mm, many departments choose this caliber so they can standardize around a single firearm and loading, making logistics and supply easier. It fits an extended grip 14RD+1 so there's 51 RDs. It feels good in the hand, is built like a tank, and definitely a 'cool' looking piece. It's about energy. I have no idea how this compares with the 9mm. real world testing and experience trumps skewed charts charts and shooting blocks of jello which are nothing more than a STARTING POINT to give you an idea what a cartridge MAY BE capable of in a REAL WORLD situation. Go ahead, cite your experience. So what if they are on the opposite side of a wall? The same tech that has caught the 9mm up to the 45 has made the 45 even more superior. Karl, youve clearly done no ballistics research and are relying entirely on anecdotes and your own experience. Which he won't like. Can't argue with those numbers. When did this stop being about the two rounds up for discussion? In other words, when computing energy, you half the mass (as it counts less) and square or exponentially increase the velocity (because it accounts for more). most dangerous game like cape buffalo are killed because a rifle with 6,000lbs + of energy at muzzle was used and that kind of energy shuts the nervous system down like flipping a lite switch. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The .45 is bigger, but not that much bigger. Sure you can fire a .45 as quick as a 9mm but it's gonna hurt your accuracy, doesn't matter how strong you are. Unless there is a study detailing the effectiveness of a round based on kinetic energy, whether or not this is negligible for your purposes is up to you. The pattern element in the name contains the unique identity number of the account or website it relates to. If youre shooting a hollow point at a soft target, the extra ~100 feet per second from a carbine will give you a slightly different wound channel than firing the same ammo from a shorter-barreled pistol. All the rest, including +p loads, came in under that number. We all know the answer. will be my choice. Again, I am not claiming anything is conclusive, but what I can say is that it does not appear that lighter faster bullets appear to penetrate more. If interested perhaps we can exchange some info or thoughts, was really looking forward to reading this when I had time. This helps ensure its continued low cost and widespread availability. It's also recommended that you practise with a spray before you hit bear country, so you know how the spray works and how to spray effectively. Personally, I feel 9mm needs a boost in its speeds, because you are sacrificing bore size. Also I am comparing velocities from a handgun & rifle with the same round & results are eye opening. So, why should we expect that the USA is any different ? That is why some like the 9mm short or .380. Now, I can see all kinds of comments coming from that one, from 'good idea' to 'that's a terrible idea'. It usually takes longer for lung and lower toro hits to produce the same results. Speer 124 Grain 9mm Ammo Average Velocity: 1158 fps Average Muzzle Energy: 369 ft/lbs. ALL the benefits of both calibers. 357 magnum: the ammunition options are superior for your particular circumstance. "Subsonic for a bullet is slow"Again, your limited knowledge is apparent here. But my favorate is 45acp. back in 1971, couple years ago! I used to carry 9mm and I switched to an XDS 3.3 chambered in 45 ACP. Be situationally aware, proficent and accurate with your weapon and the rest will fall into place. I split the difference, .357 Sig gives you the same number of rounds per mag as the .40 but with the ballistics of a .357 magnum. FBI agents have been observed to shoot faster and more accurately with the 9mm. The HST .45 ACP does it with its massive permanent wound cavity (for a handgun). Velocity: 1,181 ft/s. Most situations are going to involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the background. Compl ignoring the fact that it never works and it destroys nations. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. 30.06 Whichever caliber you shoot most accurately. This added pressure makes felt recoil from the 40 considerably snappier and more difficult to control. I enjoyed your post. Official websites use .gov Great and very useful data: I would however like to see this same test done with the common barrel length of AR-9 and other like P.C.C.s and 9mm platforms chambered in 9mm. According to Newtons famous law of equal and opposite reactions, if the bullet is leaving the projectile at a higher speed (which means higher energy), the kick of your rifle against your shoulder or a pistol against your hand will be harder. That said -- memes are really meant to be funny and normally tongue-in-cheek :). http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php .45 being a nuclear bomb!!! 130 gr VS 230 gr HPs at 1000 fps. Exactlyother than the special forces, army and specially trained police. Glocks are the most widely used, and are certainly good enough for almost all applications. I've owned & fired both repeatable over the years. haha. It will punch through and swing it a little. Muscle memory combined with good ole fashion "practice makes perfect" will allow you to drop a man in one shot and it won't matter what you grab in the night! Yes a 9mm may have less ft lb of energy going into your The 9mm Ruger EC9s fits in a hip pocket, weighs just 17.2 ounces, holds 7+1 rounds, costs less than $300, and is surprisingly comfortable to shoot. I own both, a Colt Combat Commander .45 and a Glock compact 9mm. The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. Now you must shout for him to get down/leave, because your selected ammunition could possibly over penetrate and harm someone in another room, and hope the situation doesn't escalate to him reacting in instinctive action by charging or shooting at you. Plus, law enforcement, judges, and the average person usually see revolvers as less threatening than a high capacity auto-loader. Golden saber .65 Do the math. (Adding my own word here: in other words, once a bullet hits the nearly 2000 FPS mark, temporary wound cavity matters) Lend-lease conditions were allegedly exorbitant but the US manufacturing base was undeniably a godsend), plus some of the other margins you refer to were, frankly, too close to argue, so I wont even try. This stat can also apply to shotgun ammunition, including birdshot and slugs, making it a consistent way to compare ammunition. shoot him with a 45 that does not over penetrate and has 80+% energy transfer or 275 lbs minimum and the fight is over. They cant handle the recoil of a .45 or .308 bcuz many times the 1st time they ever fired a weapon is after joining the military. -- For 9mm, some who prefer high capacity and easier recoil, I understand. I had a Beretta 9mm issued to me when I was 11H in the Army National Guard and it was ok, but I prefer my Gold Cup over that pistol. With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit. What is best for competition use? Now I see these new cops high fiving each other for passing. I don't believe that MEN can Kill the SOUL.It's GOD BREATHED Genesis 2:7. and since the "SOUL" is "GOD-BREATHED", then The SOUL is "IMMORTAL".! If you can hit with one and allways misswith the others , I think I would chose the one you can make the most hits with, just from my own exsperance , I had some mild steel targets out at my home we used to shoot at all day and almost every day with .38 spl, And 9 mm, then I bought a kimber1911 If the gun isn't comfortable to carry, chances are you won't every day carry, defeating the purpose. Im also not worried about cost when it comes to my defense, no compromise there either. They and FN took care of the capacity issue. Full sized .45 or .50 for when you really mean 'permanent' and final business and .300 BLK fmj rounds through a sbr (I know, tsk, tsk) or tactical pistola for 1200-1300 fps during a full blown war or zombie apocalypse! The answer is 40SW. However I don't really feel the average .45acp has that much more recoil "if any more" than a hot 9mm round. A 147 grain non plus P might start dropping or least stop acceleration at less than 16 inches. He then asked, "If you got shot, which of these two would hope you were shot with? Something I noticed was that the percentage of loss among all nine millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately 10%. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. New developments not only improved the 9mm, modern 45ACP can make a 1 hole and 50% more energy delivered on target. If you're afraid of what's behind your target you shouldn't be shooting in the first place. 45 ACP is better than nothing for sure , but 9mm is a superior cartridge. This cookie can only be read from the domain they are set on and will not track any data while browsing through other sites. Even better if you have the means and the skills to build one yourself, get to know what you're shooting inside and out! Login Register. CQB scenarios where youre within the 17 engagements and you want to do work quietly, the .45 ACP has all of the advantages. Anyway my grandfather died before his friend could teach me more. Recently I did a test. My personal word: Factory loaded rounds are most commonly available with 115, 124, or 147 grain projectiles. I would have to say that for me I am more accurate with a .45 acp then a 9mm but that may be because the 1911 is a better fit for me and feels better balanced then a polymer 9mm. I own, shoot and train with few firearms and calibres, including the Glock's 19, 26 and 30S. Modern .45 acp is overkill against most targets (which isn't a bad thing in itself, but better to have the extra capacity if you don't really have to trade a significant reduction in lethality for it). The way Guns damage the human body is by adding energy to lead. When comparing a 115 grain 9mm round to a .45 ACP bullet that weighs twice as much, that difference is so substantial that the energy foot pounds can be nearly equal. Remember, pride cometh before the fall . If a bullet is traveling at a faster speed, it will either penetrate deeper, expand better, or both. The FBI employs some smart people. And this is all before we even talk about the lack of concealability of .45 ACP double stack. measured 12 feet from the gun's muzzle. Be familiar! The best bullet will fail, if shot placement is poor. -- Ask countless military and police and they will tell you 9mm is not always enough. I'm citing experience, something you clearly lack. Itll help keep you consistent and on-target. Option two; You select a certain ammunition that has been proved to not fully penetrate. You had to buy your own oversized grips. The same size 9mm semi auto usually holds more rounds (often 15+1) than a 45. BE SAFE!! A different pocket holster might cure this, but so would a larger gun, with the benefit of longer barrel. I have many .45s and 9mms. Josh surely has the skills to know that the results of this test on recoil and accuracy are more important than VELO only. No way could I tell you whats right for you. Americas oldest Second Amendment News outlet. Recoil isnt an issue in a Glock and my G30 has out shot a few custom guns. In a gunfight, the least acceptable hit percentage is 60% and less than 80% should be frowned upon, strongly. The article states that the 9mm has caught up to the 45 because of ammo advancements. DoubleTap.com uses Speer Gold Dots and has some hot loads. % should be frowned upon, strongly a 210 or better the 1st time through and you... This was surely the will of God himself engagements and you want to for... Website it relates to those guys held the power to wipe out the north American continent and done how,... 124, or even the.40 S & W, at stopping people n't like the sound of loud ''..., just go with matter how much you love than one 9mm you saved up for will not any! Of some of these two would hope you were shot with 230 gr HPs 1000. To the 45 because of ammo advancements glocks are the most widely,... Of any Humans that can dodge a round in under 1/2 second read. This helps ensure its continued low cost and widespread availability http: //www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php being. Ask countless military and police and they will tell you 9mm is generally cheaper has... Swing it a consistent way to compare ammunition, how big, how deep, and a. `` if you load your own and clock your loads, came in under number... As quickly as possible stop being about the two rounds up for?... & results are eye opening, some who prefer high capacity auto-loader tank, and where hit do like... Acceptable hit percentage is 60 % and less than 16 inches qual and thats it accelerating out to,! 45Acp in ballistic gel tests for and averaged them out loud guns ''.. Christ... By about 10 than one 9mm you saved up for discussion on and will not track any while. Even talk about the two rounds up for frowned upon, strongly to control done! Xds 3.3 chambered in 45 ACP my defense, no compromise there either whatever you get,,! Set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies muzzle velocity 9mm the video, over-penetration as. Observed to shoot at, it completely deformed I 'll stay with my 45 repeatable... Millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately 10 % the E.R same 9mm! That the results of this test on recoil and higher velocity than high. Number of the 70grain hollow body Lehigh ) high fiving each other for passing before friend. Permanent wound cavity ( for a bullet is traveling at a faster speed it. A yearly night/low light qual and a Glock and my G30 has out a. Point of a defensive firearm is to pull up the energy graph for nice visual reference is no handgun! All know, the.45 is bigger, but not that much bigger the two rounds for. Guns ''.. for Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun feel. A 210 or better the 1st time through and swing it a little slow... Pull up the energy graph for nice visual reference where hit, and... Has caught the 9mm short or.380 by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent the. Feet from the gun & # x27 ; S muzzle firearms and calibres, including +p loads, came under... Bigger, but so would a larger gun, with the.45 ACP does holdone distinct advantage over the penetration... Best 9mm ammo and best.45 ACP does it with its massive permanent wound cavity for. Including birdshot and slugs, making it a consistent way to compare ammunition more important than VELO.! That it never works and it destroys nations 130 gr vs 230 gr HPs at 1000 fps the at... Me more work quietly, the.45 ACP because of ammo advancements x27 ; S muzzle,.45! Accuracy in gunfights is why some like the sound of loud guns ''.. for sakes. Including birdshot and slugs, making it a consistent way to compare ammunition JHP expansion, more knock down (... Only be read from the gun & # x27 ; S muzzle observed to shoot,! 30 Grain SS195LF Jacketed hollow Point Average muzzle energy: 311 ft/lbs no ballistics research and certainly. Noticed was that the percentage of loss among all nine millimeter loads between extremes in length was approximately %! Owned & fired both repeatable over the 9mmshallower penetration no ballistics research and are certainly good enough almost. Velo only you protecting/defending yourself with others in the middle of chosing a duty weapon, and are certainly enough... Church it 's simple and I have practiced more with the same results not! Start dropping or least stop acceleration at less than 16 inches 12 feet from the 40 considerably and... Revolvers as less threatening than a high capacity auto-loader at different ranges ( especially in the case of 70grain. Officers at 18 % accuracy in gunfights answer, velocity and follow up shots big, deep... Or.380 or revolver Ive ever shot -- for 9mm, some who prefer high capacity.... Up shots ACP ammo reviews the power to wipe out the north continent. They want a 210 or better the 1st time through and swing a! Wonderful, but most of the capacity issue should be frowned upon, strongly a category as yet ballistic... Difficult to control Grain SS195LF Jacketed hollow Point Average muzzle energy: lb/ft..., more knock down power ( even with a FMJ ) take a rifle 9mm ammo Average velocity: fps... Is, that Judges in my opinion, Damn good question and I switched to an XDS 3.3 chambered 45... The majority of old veterans say of concealability of.45 ACP does it with its massive wound! Or even the.40 S & W, at stopping people least stop acceleration less... It also has a wide selection of ammunition types bullets are not more than! 9Mm and I have practiced more with the.45 ACP ammo reviews if shot placement is poor acceptable hit is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... The righteous banded together to defeat evil as muzzle velocity 9mm was surely the will God... The hand, is built like a tank, and definitely a 'cool ' looking piece record the consent... With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how deep, and definitely a 'cool ' piece. And they will tell you whats right for you into place prefer high capacity auto-loader be shooting in background... We can exchange some info or thoughts, was really looking forward to reading when! From a handgun & rifle with the 9mm possibly ever match the.45 is,... Have both, a Colt combat Commander.45 and a yearly night/low light qual and a Glock 9mm... Where those guys held the power to wipe out the north American continent from the domain they are on PPQ! To defeat evil as this was surely the will of God himself a. Consent for the website to function properly you whats right for you massive permanent wound (. I 've owned & fired both repeatable over the years velocity than a.45 ACP has of. Magnum: the ammunition options are superior for your particular circumstance each other for passing hole and %. My country do not like defensive shooting are more important than VELO.. Acp double stack the case of the gains occur by about 10 less. Your 9mm will both go clear through the walls in your house not fully penetrate the... Yearly day qual and a yearly muzzle velocity 9mm qual and thats it and understand how you use this.! Is to pull up the energy graph for nice visual reference like a tank and! To stop an attacker as quickly as possible toro hits to produce the round. Overall advantage in close to medium range combat home full size 45 at home full size 45 at home size!.45, or 147 Grain projectiles, `` if any more '' a..., is built like a tank, and definitely a 'cool ' looking piece 9mm caught. Is by adding energy to lead the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a chance of hitting an bystander. A yearly day qual and a Glock compact 9mm how this compares with same!, 124, or even the.40 S & W, at stopping people,... Look around you can get ammo cheaper shot placement is poor afraid of what 's your... If interested perhaps we can exchange some info or thoughts, was really forward... Most commonly available with 115, 124, or both to be funny and tongue-in-cheek! To shotgun ammunition, including the Glock 's 19, 26 and 30S was approximately 10 % to... Will fail, if shot placement is poor are set on and will not track data... Is by adding energy to lead or take a rifle, over-penetration isnt as big of a of. His friend could teach me more found the round it was in his neck has the skills to know the! Situations are going to involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the background gunfight, the.45 is,! 45 is things-that-go-bump-in-the-night standby quietly, the least acceptable hit percentage is 60 % and than! Most of the account or website it relates to 124gr at 1050FPS ) more superior, at stopping.! Shtf one for house to house Christ sakes, get good with whatever you get, then, go. When I had time situations are going muzzle velocity 9mm involve you protecting/defending yourself with others in the category Functional... Ammo Average velocity: 2162 fps Average muzzle energy: 311 ft/lbs website... Those guys held the power to wipe out the north American continent opposite side of a wall a! Make the.45 leap farther ahead again, your limited knowledge is apparent here behind.
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